Resolved
3 votes

Briefly mentioned in this blog from Scott Francis, How do you respond when someone replies to something that happens, or needs to happen, in the company with, "We don't have a process for that!"

Thursday, June 04 2015, 09:51 AM
Share this post:
Responses (13)
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 09:54 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    6 votes

    Yes you have, but it sucks.

    Like
    1
    • Emiel Kelly
      more than a month ago
      Didn't read the blog (Sorry Scott), but now this answer looks a little stolen. Seems there are people with the same view as me ;-)
    • Scott Francis
      more than a month ago
      well , i was paraphrasing Roger Burlton - so he gets the credit ;)
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 10:22 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    5 votes

    "You're fired!" or "You're promoted!", based on whether they work for a mid-sized company or for a multinational company.

    Like
    2
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 10:25 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    5 votes

    Of course you have, but like with most things in life, you aren't really in control are you? This is soooo touching my ultimate passion Peter... :-)

    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 10:35 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    4 votes
    You may not have this formalized process.
    So, you need to do as following:
    1) identify what is business objective to which the process is concurring;
    2) understand the process through a modeling, mapping the KPIs derived from business objective, along the process;
    3) Measure and analyze the process;
    4) Identify potential improvements, evaluate the cost/benefits of these improvements, and decide the implementations.
    In resume, you need to control your process, that means better control your business.
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 10:54 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    7 votes

    "Let's take a look, shall we?"

    • Emiel Kelly
      more than a month ago
      Ha ha,

      Or: I got some expensive piece of software to help you wit that. Wanna buy?
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Maria Paz
    Maria Paz
    Offline
    Thursday, June 04 2015, 11:25 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    4 votes

    People who give such an answer clearly didn't understand the goal of BPM.

    All companies have processes, since a process is defined as a sequence of activities that take place in a company in order to archive the established goals.

    Of course, larger companies recognize much more often that they have processes, since most tasks require of more information, people, etc.

    But again, ALL companies have processes. For example, every CEO needs to build a team (sooner or later, if they want to grow) so they will need to hire new people. And BPM can help any recruitment process.

    Like
    1
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 11:33 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    4 votes

    Of course they might be meaning "we don't have an AUTOMATED process for that" which indicates a level of maturity has been reached. Organizations that think automation first use "process" as the word to mean "automated process" and add the word "manual" as a qualifier when for those remaining manual-processes in need of automation.

    • Emiel Kelly
      more than a month ago
      What does automated have to do with maturity?

      Seems like automation is a goal, while I think it is still a means.
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Tim Bryce
    Tim Bryce
    Offline
    Thursday, June 04 2015, 11:40 AM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    3 votes

    I would ask, what information do you want produced? How do you get it currently? As Kevin points out, they may have a manual process which they want automated.

    You cannot have a process without some form of information. There would be no purpose to it.

    References:

    1. http://timbryce.com/
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 05:44 PM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    3 votes

    They're right. They don't have a process for it: they have numerous processes, at least one in the head of each individual involved. In fact, that's the case even if they say, "why yes, we do have a process for that," and then produce a sheet of paper delineating the process as evidence. A process that hasn't been automated isn't a process at all: it's a goal.

    • Emiel Kelly
      more than a month ago
      But isn't that the whole idea about a process; reaching a goal? Or better delivering a result?

      Or even better; a useful result. And why doesn't that exist if it isn't automated. How where all services and products delivered before 1800? Fell out of the air?
    • E Scott Menter
      more than a month ago
      Hi Emiel. A goal is a lovely thing to have, certainly. And yes, I agree with you, the process exists to help you reach that goal. But non-automated processes produce inconsistent results, at least when we're talking about knowledge processes.

      Sure, products were created before automation. But uniformity of quality was always a problem. I am old enough to remember the days when, if you were buying a car, you tried to find one that was manufactured on a Wednesday. Know why? Because on Mondays and Fridays, absenteeism was higher, individuals had to cover by assuming roles they didn't normally fill, and quality would suffer. Turns out, though, that today's cars are largely built by robots that rarely, if ever, show up at work Monday morning with a hangover.
    • Emiel Kelly
      more than a month ago
      Hoi (the Dutch Hi) Scott,

      That makes exactly clear that you always have to be aware what kind of process you're talking about. Does it have to deliver the same result for a long time for many cases, like your car example (btw, once owned a 2001 Peugeot 206 that was such a Lemon. Even worse; it was doomed)

      And there might be results that can differ from case to case. But that still means that some parts of the process must be consistent. And yes, automation might help in that. So agree with you.

      Have to go now, that annoying robot is drinking all my beer...
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 06:07 PM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    3 votes
    Our answer should be WHY? It will take him to an answer that enlights if the process doesn't exist, if it doesn't worth to be identified and automated or if the company just sucks :)
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 07:45 PM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    3 votes

    Hi...
    If a company says that "they don't have a process for that", We can reply with some alternatives:

    a- If your company does not have a process for this, then, some operation/demand/requirement are not attended.
    b- if this operation/demand/requirement is critical for your company, then would be smart have some effort to design a process to add it in the chain value.
    c- You may have this process, but maybe, it is not formalized and nor recognized as business process by your organization.

    Let's create this value.

    Rgds, M

    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Thursday, June 04 2015, 08:56 PM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    4 votes

    A couple of folks have suggested versions of "why is it important to you?" . . . so let's go the whole sales route and find pain.

    (Presumably we are having this discussion because we want something to happen. Maybe we need a specific process for business reasons or maybe we want to sell some service.)

    So then "what's really at stake when there's no process?"

    Is customer sat at stake? Are we at risk of losing money? Will we get someone out of bed on the weekend (and incur OT costs)?

    And really, does anyone care? Is there no process because it's just not such a big deal?

    Or maybe there's no process because no one has shown leadership before? And because modern process or workflow technology is not understood as making building and operating a process easier.

    "Get to the 'no'" as we say -- find all the reasons why this process doesn't matter. And what's left is maybe an opportunity.

    If it really does matter, then there needs to be some serious motivation. We can provide pain relief. And make the sale.

    So it's either a must-have -- or forget it and move on. Maybe check back in six months . . . 

    Don't forget, the whole reason we're having this conversation is because we think that maybe we need to do something.

    Are you with me?

    • Emiel Kelly
      more than a month ago
      I agree with you. Actually they say 'whe have a process, but it doesn't perform'. So first start with asking what performance means to them (what process result is needed and what do you promise about it), why is bad performance bad and then see how it can be improved.

      mmm. classic process improvement
    • Bogdan Nafornita
      more than a month ago
      my personal experience is that they always say they have a process, but when asked to describe it there is a huge awkward silence before they start inviting each other to start the description :-)
    • Patrick Lujan
      more than a month ago
      @Bogdan #TouchNose
    The reply is currently minimized Show
  • Accepted Answer

    Monday, June 08 2015, 03:29 PM - #Permalink
    Resolved
    2 votes

    If “that” has separation-of-labour and/or separation-of-work then there is a business process for “that”. And this business process is implicit. Next they have to be asked about importance, performance and changeability of it. Next they have to be asked if they want to improve this process and so in accordance with the REF1.

    Thanks,
    AS

    The reply is currently minimized Show
Your Reply

Join the Discussion

Want to join the discussion?

Login, or create an account to participate in the forum.

Top Participants

Dr Alexander Samarin
278 Replies
30/09/2016
David Chassels
271 Replies
30/09/2016
Emiel Kelly
223 Replies
30/09/2016
Bogdan Nafornita
210 Replies
30/09/2016
E Scott Menter
182 Replies
28/09/2016